Fireside chat with Magnolia Pretell- Genes and wellness
1 - 0:00:05
Hello, everybody. My name is Mariette Abraham, CEO and founder of Qina (https://qina.tech), the Hub for data and insights and personalized nutrition. And today I'm joined by Magnolia Pretell. Yeah. And the idea is our first one. It's our first fireside chat, we'd like to call it. And the goal of these conversations are really to elevate women in science, elevate women in health, elevate women in nutrition and really give voice to those. Who have not had a voice or had an online voice in the Scientific Nutrition, Wellness space for a very, very long time. So this is kind of experimental and we wanna talk about really hot topics that both cover our own learnings, our own experience, our own insights. So it's not an interview, it's a conversation. So I'll ask Magnolia questions. She'll ask me questions about, you know, the history and our journey and how we got you this far and yeah.
1 - 0:00:35
So, Magnolia, I'll leave you to introduce yourself.
2 - 0:01:10
Well, my name is Magnolia. And I'm a founder of genes and Wellness. I'm a human geneticist. That's what I I just felt really on my spot, I think. And right now, I work helping women to, you know, uncover their DNA information just in genetic testing and nutrigenomics too, you know, up level, their health. I love what I do.
2 - 0:01:14
And yeah, I'm really happy to be here. Thank you for the invitation.
1 - 0:01:45
Good start probably would be to talk about your background to you, your journey. How did you get to be a geneticist? Like what, what, what, how? How did you get to the intersection of, you know, nutrition and health in women rather than maybe getting a lab job? So talk us through them.
2 - 0:02:05
Right. Yeah. Right. It was a long journey. I think it started when I was kind of 15. I was watching a documentary and Discovery Channel about the the Human Genome Project. And I was like, you know, it was kind of like a love at first sight because I was like, oh, you know, I was thinking what I'm going to do it to, to study in university. I was thinking too, in January because I did like math. And then I was like, Oh my God, this is fascinated how you know, the molecule of life is going to uncover these secrets of us. And it seems like for me like a fantasy. And that day I decided that this is my path. This is what I wanted to do. And I gonna do what it takes in order to, you know, understand this. So I was born in Peru, so in Latino America. So things are not with the whole technology. So I I needed to put my hands on 1st.
2 - 0:02:35
Language, English and then have a good grades. I did have good grades in in high school, so I had to, you know keep it up and start thinking how I'm gonna do this and going to probably the United States or somewhere else in order to get that PhD and so on. So, so I the first thing I I studied biotechnology the more closer I could get. And then I did my masters in the University of Sao Paulo and the best University of Latin America and in Brazil. And then I moved to the nervous into runham UMC G and the medical department, and I was studying in complex genetic traits with celiac disease. And that's where I.
2 - 0:03:24
Hard questioning, you know, the pneumatics and and the food and so how and a lot point I was in a crossroad because at the same time that I I did understand your genetics and your rare diseases and so on. I was not taking care of myself, you know, I was a little overweight, I was a little tired, I was a little happy. And I feel like, no, this is not how I picture my life with. I was in a really nice lab, learning with best colleagues and so on, but I was not happy. And then I decided, you know, I took a long walk in in the world through the canals in Amsterdam, and I said like, no, I think I need to make a turn and I want to start.
2 - 0:04:12
And scratch and Start learning nutrition. And that's when I decided to enter to nutrigenomics and start going to move to from the medical department to the nutritional department and I move to Canada to study nutrigenetics and uncover a new variant related to some vitamins and that's how the journey went. And then after during the pandemic I I noticed that I had the opportunity to start guiding or like helping people using the neutral genetic testing. And I really enjoy it. The for me, it's like magic really to to being able to somebody who don't understand things about their DNA and explain them and carry them to hold their hand and say like everything is fine, you know, there's nothing wrong with you. And then you know, explain what the variances are, what changes they need to do. And I I I find myself on that. And that's why I decided to go for consulting. And that's where I am now.
1 - 0:05:44
Wow. So you consult with women directly to help them to change their. Habits, health habits, dietary habits and empowering and and and you use nutrigenetics to as part of a as a data point to personalize their diets. Very interesting. And how, how has your traditional training? Helped you or hindered you because using your kind of lab skills and then using a more coaching approach, that is also something that you know it's a different set of skills. So where did you pick up those skills?
2 - 0:06:22
Uh, definitely. The Academy work is very different from the business one. And I was not prepared from that transition in the beginning. It was totally outside my comfort zone. I did gain a lot of skills, but I couldn't see my transfer skills using in business. I don't know why. And so it took me a time to really gain and recognize how how I was in in some way prepared. You know, they built management, time management, information management. Strategic planning or the creative thinking, I already have it in general background and so on. But in business I needed to reach a new skills related to marketing or communication or copywriting or you know even in emotional intelligence with your clients. And so I did took some courses and. Related to business, who made me feel more familiar and comfortable and it took me like a year that I was like OK, this is it, I planned it and you know I was able to to transition from that. Tell me about you how, how did you manage first your journey because I'm, I'm, I'm really curious about your journey.
1 - 0:07:45
My journey was also I always think about. Using being unhappy as a way to make your next move. So being unhappy is not such a bad thing because it sparks you and inspires you to do to do something about it if you have that kind of a person. And that's exactly the kind of person that I am. So I'm not really one to be afraid of the unknown, and I think that is kind of. I would say as part of my upbringing.
1 - 0:08:15
So I was born in South Africa, but at the age of four we had to move to Europe because of apartheid. So my father was very politically involved and of course it was danger to our lives to be there. And so we had to leave. So we were technically, we were refugees. And so my father got a bursary to study and and then first in Germany and then to the Netherlands, which already, you know, planted the seed that you just pack up everything and then you go.
1 - 0:08:18
And then you go to a school where you don't understand the language and then you pick it up. And then you go to another country and another school and learn another language. And then you pick it up and you're making your friends. And so this transition makes you very adaptable. And so when it came to high school, I didn't know what I wanted to do. And one of the teachers said because at that stage I was, you know, playing volleyball. I was teaching swimming. I was, you know, I like science. And she said, you know, this is the Greek will dietetics and you might like it. And and it combines kind of nutrition with science. And, you know, maybe.
1 - 0:08:49
Maybe that'll fit you. And so I thought, OK, well, you know, nothing much can happen. I actually wanted to study psychology. And my dad wouldn't let me so, so I ended up going to university study dietetics. I I.
1 - 0:09:26
I I didn't love it I would say I didn't love it. I wouldn't say yes you know this is definitely I did it because I do I although I'm I I'm not scared of giving up I am a finisher so I I thought I I'm gonna finish this and then I will see what comes next. And so it was my then my dream to then say OK I'm going to finish university and then I'm going to get a clinical job in you know as a dietitian in in the hospital setting and then so I worked really hard and I got my first job. Then moving to the two London to do clinical dietetics working in the hospital. But I very quickly realised probably within three months that this is not gonna be my life forever. And so at that point I decided I need to diversify my skill set. And the only way that is going to make me more marketable is not to have to become more specialized in nutrition but actually do something that.
1 - 0:10:07
Can be applied anywhere. So I think I spoke to somebody and I went to an open day and they said MBA's for you. You need to apply for an MBA. And basically at that time I didn't think I was, you know, I had the right skills or the right knowledge or was smart enough to do an MBA. And I thought I should do a certificate in management or something. And they say, man, don't waste your time. You already have agreed, just jump in and do an MBA. And I, and I'm so glad I took that advice.
1 - 0:10:37
And and I and I did the hard work because it really helped me, you know then open up a completely different perspective rather than the scientific perspective. It opened up the business, you know, perspective and bring out that kind of creativity and that kind of a mindset of being more entrepreneurial. And while I was studying I was working in the hospital setting and then I took a management job. So that helped me in the, you know, up to apply what I was learning in a Clinical Nutrition setting, you know, in a healthcare setting. So that then.
1 - 0:11:07
Really sparked. And then I thought, well, if I'm finished with an MBA, I'm gonna go into management consulting, you know, healthcare consulting, and I'm gonna work for like a big company or whatever. And luckily I had always very good mentors around me. And one of the mentors said to me, you know, in the hospital I was always starting new projects. I did things in different ways. I, you know, I I started new you know, approached what work flows in different ways and and and and he said to me, you know you're going to you, your soul is going to die if you go in that direction because it doesn't match your personality. And at that stage, I I I didn't then quite know what I was going to do, but then an opportunity came up.
1 - 0:11:50
Which then opened up, you know, an opportunity to combine my nutrition knowledge with my business. You know, skills. And knowledge in the industry setting. And that's what trans made the transition from healthcare to industry into medical nutrition, because I was using the product anyway in the hospital setting, because I knew that well. I knew the translation of the science very well and I knew the application very well. And I could explain it and teach it and present it in a business setting very well. So that kind of opened my eyes to, hey, I can I actually do this, you know? But then that was a very big machine, kind of a setting, and it didn't match my personality.
1 - 0:12:29
And so I said, you know, I need to quit this as well, which then started me onto a path of consulting. And once I then was in charge of my own timetable, my own learning, my own, you know, what I wanted to do. I then came upon, you know, personalized nutrition, which of course we've been doing all along. But it's more the technology that is new. So it's more tech enabled, personalized nutrition. And I said this is, this is it, this is gonna be my thing. I get it.
1 - 0:12:59
I love it. I wake up and I'm pumped. And I know exactly what I need to do, what I need to say. But finding. Finding my voice, I would say was the hardest part. So it was kind of, I'm not a scientist because I didn't go in the specialist route. I'm not a business person because I, you know, I didn't go that route. I didn't go to management consultant. You know, I'm not a practitioner because no that's also not what I I've kind of, I've done been there and done that. I'm not that. So then finding what is, what is your, you know, your unique voice what like what is it that you stand for.
1 - 0:13:40
So it's, I think it's a very easy phrase, but I think it's a very difficult one to to find and to be able to verbalize. So it took me, I would say, a good ten years to say. Kina is it. That's my journey. So for me, personalized nutrition now in the industry is we are really at a stage where we.
1 - 0:14:23
Are at the intersection of nutrition, health technology, but also all the societal impact that this has on how people choose food and how they behave around, you know, their health and their attitudes and perceptions around their health. But just to go a little bit back, so by 20, maybe 2012, 2013, I decided personalized nutrition is the thing. This is what I was going to do. But the industry was no industry. There were like 5 companies in the industry, and I need to bide my time and I really need to think about.
1 - 0:14:32
You know how this industry is going to evolve, because I don't know. I'm confident that it's gonna evolve, but it's not going to evolve like next year. So that's what I've worked on, a PhD and that's it. That's now the thing that I'm going to do. And so that really gave me a another different perspective on what is required from an academic perspective. You know the the critical skills that you need to have, the analytic skills that you need to have, you know, formulating your hypothesis and being able to validate your, you know, your your choices, your decisions and being able to.
1 - 0:15:03
Write it in a clear, clear and concise way. And I think that was a very bruising experience. I I think anybody now my my dad did his PhD and I didn't really know what that was because I was young. But as you learn, you think, OK, people with PhD must be like really smart or I changed my mind. Now I believe now that people were PhD, they can be stamped and crushed and you know insulted and and if they come out the other way, they are resilient. So I I stopped thinking they are really smart. I and I now believe that they are just really the resilient because you are so.
1 - 0:15:48
Bruised, but you come on better the other side. I think that's what it is. You come out so on. My my supervisor was so great, both of them that that. When you get a manuscript back and you just see red, red, red, red, red, red, red, I mean, you know, it's it's enough to make anybody give up but you know, if you can go through it. And that's really helped me in the business to be resilient, you know, wake up and think, how can I attack this from another way? How can I go on? How can I do something that's new? How can I validate and stand by what I believe is what's gonna happen? And that's what got me here, really. That's really what the journey has been. So my journey is far from over.
1 - 0:16:26
I still feel like. Like I just finished university. I feel like I'm like I'm in my 20s, that the journey is only beginning, so I hope that gives you a good.
2 - 0:17:08
Overview. Fascinating. I I didn't know all the journey and I thought it was the PTSD 1st and then the NBA, but now I found out that they reversed. Very interesting. Now I'm glad that you shared.
1 - 0:17:21
That. Yeah. Yeah. So it's interesting, yeah.
2 - 0:17:26
I totally agree several of I totally agree about finding your voice and the resilience. There is a lot of colleagues that I've met through PhD is not just in in in in the same you know in the biological side but in other places that you know they they they really love the the the aim of their research. But then going to the business seems like a nightmare from them. And they sometimes believe that they don't have the skills to go to the industry, but it's that's totally your wrong idea. And and and finding your voice is also something that you know, I think the fact of questioning yourself and overthinking and overthinking what you're doing and when you are writing and so on makes you the right questions to move forward in the what you wanted to do or what you do need need to do so. I think deeply everything that I do is because of the grad school and you know, and the wise and the house are made made us more persistence. And the challenge is I think that people like to to go for the challenge because you see like experiment doesn't work, you need to repeat it over, repeat it over, you forget something and then you have.
1 - 0:18:48
To exactly.
2 - 0:18:50
And and yeah, but I also find out in the transition from the Academy to the, you know, front, the entrepreneurial side that even I was able to do those things, I didn't was I didn't have my own voice per se on the fact of. And sharing like I was. I think in from my my journey I won't see everybody. I was looking for more approval you know, and becoming you need the approval needed. With more people, you're like the the mentors and things like that, yeah. When you're alone or as a founder, you know, like you have to stand for yourself and then on the way of that, you, you, you.
2 - 0:19:25
Got to be more independent from the approval of other people and just you know, be able to share your life and you create your own values because academia have their own values and I'm not. Yes, more and I have to create my own values in white stand for and that was a challenge also for me and made me grow.
1 - 0:19:59
A lot. So, yeah, yeah. And that's a lot of people get trapped into that fear, the fear of, the fear of. Failure and the fear of standing out alone. You know, standing for what you really believe in or what you feel, where you see something is not right. But I don't wanna rock the boat too much. And so it's easier to fit in rather than to stand out from the crowd. But I always thought that, you know, when I started blogging that I would get like pounded on by, you know, all the experts and academics and that, you know, I would get like hate mail and everything, nothing ever happened.
1 - 0:20:10
Nothing ever happened. So all these wars and fears are all in our own heads and there's nothing, you know, wrong. I mean, of course you need to be able to stand because you you flip flop the whole time that that is not going to be good. So as long as you can say something with conviction and you stand by it. I do believe that more people, especially women and especially in nutrition, because I think we know, we know that science is not perfect.
1 - 0:20:41
And we know that, you know, people are not perfect, but it's how you translate it that you know can make a difference. But if you're going to fall into the exact same messaging, people switch off, you know, people don't want to hear because what maybe what you're going to say they already know or you, you don't have any fresh angles or ideas. And so if you wanted to stand out and I think that's where we where you do it very well because I think nutrigenetics. Of course, it's the area that I first became interested in and from across disease person because I'd be perspective and I think, you know there's a lot of umm, how can I say discussions still around the the the topic, So what what what I've seen first hand is that. It can be life changing for somebody who hear you know that there's a new science emerging, that this is what some of the science points to. And people like to hear that that kind of, you know what what the advances have been because what I learned at university in nutrition had changed completely because of this changed over the last year. So nutrition is a science that keeps on evolving and shouldn't and just like personal information, it will keep on evolving because it should, but.
1 - 0:22:02
Have has the way that we are speaking about nutrition and the advances in science, you know, technology and society actually changed the way we portray ourselves and how we voice our opinions. What, what, what, what is your perspective on on that?
2 - 0:22:51
My perspective is that yes, we need technology in order to, you know, stay informed and. And I would say that. It's it's a lot. So I think it's a lot of work to do still, but we have what we have now. It's enough to have good start. And it's actually that is helping people, but there is a lot of fear towards technology from from different sides.
2 - 0:23:16
I mean. From from my own journey like from the day that I started hearing about uncovering your DNA. It was not fear like it was a like as I just say like love at first sight. But I find that many people are like I don't want to be controlled this is going to stress me or you know the OR the bliss of ignorance. You know like no I don't want to check myself out. I don't want to go to the doctor. I don't want to know. I don't want you know and they.
1 - 0:23:54
They get, yeah.
2 - 0:23:56
So I. Right. And they love technology. I like the future isms and things like that and always being very open minded with that. So the communication as you said like needs to be you know very clear and and perspective. But I also don't want to lose because I what I observe from from some companies and so on, it's male view like you know there's this science fiction that fit their minds of some people. And they think about a monsters, you know, like these transgenic things and very like that. And that fits the the fantasy of what really is right now and how they help it and break it down and changing and calm the fear. It's an emotional work that I don't think companies are doing. And they are putting also another side of like you have to be like a superhuman and stronger and competitive and 1st like that and it's also.
2 - 0:24:29
Not the the narrative that some people really carry on it. Really. Yeah. I don't think it's, it's something that I really wanted to really, you know, like marketized.
1 - 0:25:10
With yeah.
2 - 0:25:11
More than you know locking yourself understand your body better and and so on and sometimes even back to your roots you know sometimes with all the things that happen in contemporary with history and and and the industries we we forget about the the roots of of of things so. Yeah, this is a long conversation about it. But before parting with that, I wanted to, I wanted to to make this question about what do you think are the struggles or the obstacles that that women have in science that you perceive?
1 - 0:25:46
Yeah, yeah, I mean. I I I I. This way I think there are loads of struggles and I think. Again, coming back to your voice, if there is, if there are less women, then you know, they are also less voices. And those who have you, there's a in science, you know, might not be as as confident or not everybody's as confident to speak up. So I do think that. Women have an important role, but we are still a very small section or or or community.
1 - 0:26:17
Especially that think interdisciplinary. So I think we have great scientists who are very good and very deep and you know, worldwide experts in this. But what we need in order to make an impact is to think like that. So we need you know, the lab to understand what happens in behavior change, what happens with retailers, you know what, how do we make it so that the science that is done is, is, is representative of. The real world and other problems that need to be answered, because many people that I speak to, there's this push that you should do a masters, you should do a PhD because that's your kind of your career trajectory. But then.
1 - 0:27:03
You know it, it has nothing to do with real life and and you are working on somebody else's project because that's what they got funding for and so and and and so they have no interest in the topic, they have no love for it and they have no need to go into it afterwards. And so I think we are, we are in some cases developing high quality sciences. That maybe are not passionate or that have not met that that sweet spot of what it is they are interested in what they would like to be paid for and what they are actually doing at the moment. And so that's where I think there's a there's a big gap. And so the we are certainly underrepresented, we are, we certainly don't have enough, you know.
1 - 0:27:43
Voices, vocal voices. And I also think that. There are already a lot of waves in the research community, I would say in the academic community because if you are not, you can't remote work you know you can't do, you can't do flexible working in a in a academic role for example. And and so that's where I think maybe also a lot of women drop off by the wayside who could have been great scientists if there was a more flexible and more modern approach towards integrating real life with with. Just how how we work. And so I do expect the future to be a little bit more.
1 - 0:28:41
To look different and not, not, not the way that that we certainly did it and I also think that. Maybe what we I don't know how how your your degree was but what what we did physics in in first years because it was a physics degree so we had to have some physical and now I think President. It's like I don't think it's great and everything but really didn't need to do physics. No I I probably would have loved to do computer science first year you know, first year as part of the nutrition. So those are I think you know we need to rethink the the curriculums of of, of not only of how we train and how that then transitions into real life. And so I think there are big gaps for the future in terms of where we need to look at but I think for women in science.
1 - 0:29:06
We need to work it, make it especially. Let's talk about specifically in health. We need to make the science work for us simply because we are the ones that make most decisions about health and nutrition. And so those are the problems we need to study, right. That's the areas that we need to. So, so we see it first hand and we we are the main carers of, you know, whether it's elderly or the older population. And so we see where the gaps are we, we know where the need is and that's how the money.
1 - 0:29:34
Should be channelled. That's how the funding should be channeled. But that in my view is certainly at how how the reality works. So I hope that for my daughter's case that things will look different in a few years, not in church you're going to science, but but certainly there's there's a lot of work to do there's there's a lot of work to do as I mean, it's just, it's huge. Maybe not solved in my lifetime. What do you?
2 - 0:30:30
Think, yeah, I always, I always think very positively on the fact of yes, there is a lot to do and I really want to see my granddaughters, you know, and probably in that stage when things are more smoothly from then if they decided to introduce science. But I also put my hand on it like how I can be proactive in order to make a voice or comment. So I don't you know carry every day but I all every opportunity I have to change their mind or to say like no what you are saying you know you have this bias or you are this is not you know open your mind to this I take the chance everywhere I go if from that coffee with my girlfriends from you know even if I waiting. In a living room and I hear something. I just tried to say like no, this is another way to to do it. So I open space for these women who are came in because my role is not easy, not not easy at all and.
1 - 0:31:36
Yeah.
2 - 0:31:37
Even I I have the passion and I have the hard work and so on. It it I I had many struggles to you know, because of the way I look or how I do things or my pronunciation or so on. So I think it's it's it's it's This is why I I also you know put it on hand like the work on the bias also the mindset and the bias of not just women that you you know empower but also men who are working next to us to you know work them. Do the half of the work in order to open more doors and opportunities for everybody. Because if this is not like a competence, like who is better than other ones, it's basically everybody's gonna win at the end, everybody's going to win.
1 - 0:32:27
It if we.
2 - 0:32:28
Open their minds and do the work, because there's a lot of work to do.
1 - 0:32:32
Yeah.
2 - 0:32:32
Hey, I think women in science as as you said like the fact of choosing is is good and I think you, you have, you come from a perspective of of you know, I think the Netherlands. Of Europe, which is also already advanced for women because when I moved over there, I had to work a lot on myself to to, you know, there is a way to like I. To my when I, I I thought myself as a somebody who was very independent back when I was in Brazil, for example. But when I was in the Netherlands, I I saw many strong woman and explaining things like very more independent. And I thought women could be possible. And I saw much, much real freedom that that's a freedom that I claim wherever I go, but not every place can hold that freedom that I know it's possible for me so. But in in in Latin America there is a lot of struggles of men taking women seriously or and how they do business or how they you know there is a lot of work to do in in the basics of of respect and and and then when you go farther it's like you can see that there is a point when women are very educated highly educated but they are not taking the seat.
2 - 0:33:29
Of the leading part and that is why. Like what what it is and it's because when you are in the in in the and I guess you do it very frequently. That's my question and that's something that I'm I'm Start learning and I think you have more experience when you are in with the heads or the CEO's you know totally thinking business mind and you know trying to come to with a more hard decision. You know more like OK you know like yeah I understand that. Profit is really important but you know think about other options for example. And when I have to talk when I talk with CEO's about well I need your product in Spanish because, you know I can recommend that this and you know how we can work this how I mean I can I understand this. I can explain how we can and they are not interested because this is like OK I I'm not going to have many clients in in a short term. So, you know like.
1 - 0:34:57
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
2 - 0:34:59
This is, this is a mentality that is not generating progress and if I want to represent or like thinking about Latin America sometimes or or things like that, there is sometimes a closed minded thing like OK, no, you know, like.
1 - 0:35:14
Yeah.
2 - 0:35:15
It's a matter of time, I think. And and also. Yeah, it's, it's like that. Like in women, in, in, in, in the, in the big seats. And I bet I was really lucky that in my journey I found. Three or four women who inspire me who were like in a very leading position since I was, for example, doing my summer, you know, summer.
1 - 0:35:46
Placement.
2 - 0:35:47
Yes, when I started to start doing the lab and things like that, I observed this. You know, there were taking the lab, they were the heads of the lab and so on. And that made me, as a young woman, inspired that I could do it, you know, I could do.
1 - 0:36:04
It I could.
2 - 0:36:05
Do it. I could be, say it. I could change it. And I I I spent a lot of time observing them, like what they do, how they do it more than men because, and that inspired me to, you know know that there is work to do so. What for? Yeah, how how it it's from your view?
1 - 0:36:29
No, I mean it's a very, very interesting one because when I, when I, when I worked in in the hospital setting. I I learned that speaking to maybe a patient or maybe the family is one way of speaking. And if you have to go and speak to a surgeon for example, to say maybe this patient is at risk or maybe we should do a particular kind of intervention, you know something like that you feeding or something which is of course more invasive. You need to, you have about 5 seconds to grab that surgeons attention. So I learned that if you speak you, you have to be able to find the keywords or the key things that will make them. Uh, switch on. Yeah. Otherwise it it doesn't work. So for a surgeon, those words tend to be they listen to you talking. Hi, I'm the dietitian.
1 - 0:37:15
And then you say, well, this patient is malnourished. They're going to get an infection. What infection? What? They're going what? So it's it's things like infection, length of stay, you know, complications with surgery, those other things that made the surgeon wake up. And listen, if you speak to the gastroenterologist, you say, hi, I'm the dietitian pea. You say gut pain or not absorbing what, what, all of a sudden they switched. And so I applied that.
1 - 0:37:26
Same learning to the business that it doesn't really matter how smart you are or how well you know scientific, you know papers you can if you don't use the right words in those first five kind of seconds to grab their attention. So it's not about, you know, the product, but. How can you, how can you convince them with us within those five seconds then this is the business opportunity. Not that they should do it. It's not that what they should do and and what they don't have. It's what is the opportunity for you and what are you missing out on. Then you have attended then all of a sudden you get you know the the sparks go on and the eyes open and then so that's what I've kind of learned that you know it doesn't matter. I I sometimes see people saying oh I did my PhD at you know this university in this Ivy League.
1 - 0:38:16
Yeah, this is stupid. What can you do? How can you do it better, faster, cheaper and, you know, stand out from the crowd. That's what they get. If you could do it in five seconds, you know your business will stay. That's what I've learned. So I have learned, you know, that communication is really key. But it's not just communication because anybody can talk. Yeah, maybe anybody can talk. Well, presenter, but you need to be able to find what? What is it that will spark that person? Not everybody in the room, the person that matters or the two.
1 - 0:38:51
People that matter and that's really the key I I feel. And so I do think we have a lot of work to do, but I think yes, having role models is, is, is great. But I actually think we are the role models now, you know it really impact people are looking at us going hitting those other people and so it doesn't matter if we're not you know high up or running the big big huge tech companies whatever from where we've come. If we look back, we are already role models, and that's what we need to remind ourselves of that. Looking back at where our mothers and grandmothers have come from, we've already made great advances and we should be proud of that and we should celebrate that. And therefore we should elevate more women to become that voice. And so we should grow, but we should like you do like every day just talking and talking about it. But because perceptions are not going to change that quickly. But we've already.
1 - 0:39:48
Made huge strides in in where where we are right now.
2 - 0:40:24
Exactly. I I keep my, my eye on myself also because it's also there is a lot of ingrained roots beliefs that are, you know, wrong and about sexism about racism and things like that. And I, you know, observe things from one side or another. I don't try to, you know, like confront people. I just more like, you know, like try to what. If you make another question, what if you question things in another way? Yeah. So please start like thinking and like, OK, yes, maybe. Also what I find out that with academia is that in working with genetics there is a lot of misconceptions about genetics and there's a lot of damage that history calls. And I I, I spend my time reading a lot about it in order to, you know, be open in, in and be open to.
2 - 0:40:53
Communicate with everybody and what what they are, because for me probably take it for granted and I also find out. That this person can be a smart, can be the head of the university, you know, all the PHD's, all the things like that very smart person with high IQ, but it still can be racist, still can have those biases that this person didn't work on.
1 - 0:41:48
And that's.
2 - 0:41:48
That's challenging because even you, you can say, look, no, I'm not this person. It is this person can say like, no, I'm not sexist, I love women. But they are, you know, they they, they do, they, they share. And that's the the challenging part when somebody cannot see themselves and make work. And I don't know if you took but long time ago when I was around 18 or so there was I don't know maybe it's still online. You could took a test of your subconscious mind by Harvard and if it find out if you have some trace about you know you're if you're racist or you are you know like a homophobic and things like that several tests and I. Took it back on the list because I, you know, I was 1819, said like, no, I, I don't. I see everybody, you know, I don't have anything. I love everybody. But when I took the test, there was a lot of misconceptions that it was very ingrained and I couldn't perceive because probably I get it before I was six years old.
2 - 0:42:32
And I when I'm reading the also like it's things like you don't don't know. And since then I'm working towards that like I'm I'm on myself because that's where I can do and when I can work with other people. But you know I start with your own work and start changing like OK I see perceive myself and when I create a narrative with more open minded or with which I did and in grad studies some people are like especially when they're two concussions like like because they didn't work. Towards their own conscious biases and that was challenging and still like wanted to educate people aware that like their own awards towards that. Yeah, I think what's your would be on that?
1 - 0:43:34
Of course, for me, for me, it's it was very again, coming back to my childhood because although I was born in South Africa, I didn't grow up in South Africa. And so I didn't, I didn't, I, I didn't have that. Conscious bias already I knew I was different because I was a I was only black kid in the class and kids in school, and I thought everybody didn't live in their own country, you know, I thought everybody's father was doing a PhD and tell them I was stayed at home and so, but then when we went back to South Africa, of course. But that said I was 12. I I I had a hard time understanding why we lived in a separate area, why we lived in a segregated area, why we only could go to particular schools, why I had to stop music lessons and stop gymnastics and stop all the things that I love to do when I was a kid. But then I I realized that. Those two worlds that I then was exposed to helped me to question at every turn what my biases were. And and I think my realization is is that everybody has, everybody holds biases everybody. Every single person. And so but how you act on that and and check in with yourself and not say no, I no, I'm not no I'm no and and become defensive about it. But you also need to surround yourself with people who say hey that was not.
1 - 0:44:32
Very cool. And hey that, you know, that that was actually very insulting and you know, talk about your hair or your nose, your body shape or your, you know that you have an accent. All these different things are really little snide remarks that come. From a very innocent point of view from the other person who doesn't know. But my upbringing has helped me to say no, actually, I know I hold biases. I'm not going to say, hey, you know, I'm in personalized nutrition. I don't hold, I hold biases whether I know them or not. I do. I admit it. I hold biases. And so, but being aware of them, I think is more important in your everyday life to make sure that you keep on doing that check and think, hey, did did I just, did I just say.
1 - 0:45:16
Something that I just do something because not everybody's going to tell you. But they'll remember how you made them feel. And so I think that is that is the message that that we need to carry. But I think one of the other things we also discussed before was this concept of multiculturalism and because I think that falls nicely into kind of what what we are talking about what, what does multiculturalism kind of mean to you, to me. So to me that means exactly this, this thing to me about.
1 - 0:45:54
Being being born African but but but having grown up European and thinking you know thinking maybe in my head that somehow I I I maybe was European but I wasn't and you know and then going back and then and then they say no you're not South Africa you know you you are really European they always told us and told us you you the Dutch kids but we weren't that we were South African and then of course you know it's it's a complete. Grew up for the mind, you know, because essentially you don't know who you are. But then I went to, I went to Stellenbosch University, which traditionally was a very, you know, white university, very, very conservative university. We, we were, we had a target or the university at a target for our course. We were only allowed four non Caucasians on the course for dietetics and I was one of them. And so that gives you an idea of what I was was going into.
1 - 0:46:48
But you know what? I had the best time at university at that university because I believe that my perspective was different. I didn't come into the university and thinking people are going to be nasty. They, they're going to be racist. They're going to treat me badly. They're going. I had none of that, none of that, none of that. And so I do feel very bad for the people who grew up in South Africa, went to the university, had a very bad experience because I had a very good experience, you know, and so I do think this perception of multiculturalism.
1 - 0:47:17
Because of my upbringing opened my eyes and so to me, that exposure is very important to build, you know, a healthy community, a healthy family, a healthy, you know, everything. So that doesn't make a huge difference. And you've also travelled everywhere.
2 - 0:48:08
Yes, I did and I have to and I did it by just by myself, like I didn't carry my family, which is another layer of challenge. But The thing is for me multicore tourism you said is is put it in most of the people think about multiculturalism, about being in a room with different people for another cultures, another missies and just working on getting a loan. But I'm going deeper, like 2-2 layers deeper on the fact that. Yes, you can be in a in a in a room with people in different things but still seeing things vertically or hierarchically or you know this these layers and there is when you start taking off these labels and seeing more human things, more horizontal when you just connect in an an another level. And that's where I I see myself because I did spend time a years in in Brazil, in, in, in, in the new. Their lands in Canada and the United States obviously in Peru and I did have to adapt to each each country or each culture. I would say I put myself very like into the horizontal part and connect with the language with what we're doing what we're eating and and you know making friends and and starting together and working together and that give me a a wide view of what it means to be a human. You know like the emotions that the struggles.
2 - 0:49:07
And the values and what how they see the world what their what they stand for us as, as a city as a country and so on. And it it's it's deeper than just you know sharing and seeing the screen because when you work in in most of the people like yeah multicultural because I'm in my own hometown and I have people from other places and sometimes we share you know like a coffee and so on. But it's not it's basically when you have to survive with them and you know make everything as them and and you know like. Adopt totally. That's that's where I come from. When when I say I'm multicultural I have to take all those layers and and challenge my beliefs also not from religion, political and any other things in order to you know say like yeah maybe they are right. You know maybe I just I was close minded or maybe this is how other way to think and.
1 - 0:50:29
Yeah.
2 - 0:50:30
I that's where I I opened my mind and you know I I challenged myself. I was very lucky because. I was um. This open myself like I was were receive with with people with the you know the people who were innate from them and you know from their to their homes to their parties their studies. So I was able to connect with them and that's why I I just say like I don't belong to one place because I love people all around the world because they really connect with them. I make a good friendships and so on. So yeah that's that's where the multicore isms come from.
2 - 0:50:40
It's more like this deep reconnection of of human, human.
1 - 0:51:16
Then how do we translate that into you know personalized nutrition? What do you think the industry needs to learn in terms of multiculturalism because I mean you see it also on you know in the clinic. So you know what is needed, what, what does industry, what can they learn from because at the moment it's, it's not let's face it, it's it's not we need, we need to do a much better job and and that needs to happen and but what needs to happen for the industry to be to embrace. Or multiculturalism.
2 - 0:51:50
First of all, understand there is several layers from the science bar science part and the social part because both are part of what means human, what means personalized nutrition and you know being in front of your foods and that's going to reach you. So from the layer of of genetics and science and so on, we need more studies for you know like diversity, like they they concentrate in all the results are from one side. I won't say that we're too different. But we might need to challenge the numbers again I don't think it's it's going to be a tremendous variation so on but it's still like it's it's going to be things that we might need to uncover or might need to reframe it for people who were not study were not included. That would say and the other part of nutrition it's you know the cultural part. Food it's a lot of culture and people feel proud where they come from and put it's yeah it's part of you. You know it's for me it's a celebration food everywhere like what do you eat? You. They take it like so personal like it it's me and you need to try my food and wait to welcome you. So when you you.
1 - 0:53:03
Say.
2 - 0:53:03
Something like you give it advice and you know you see the the report and so on and it's more. Americanized or North Americanized in my case or or European thinking. And you cannot find those kids here. People say like OK, you. They fill out outside, you know and or or even if they they or even if they are inside of their own in North America, they felt like OK, there's a part that I need to you know close in order to be healthy or they question themselves are they identity? Because DNA is also questioning your identity you know.
1 - 0:53:39
You you have.
2 - 0:53:39
To so for me would say, you know, they need to embrace the other side, the social part of what, where they are, how they come from, what people like. And that's part of personalized but makes the people happy, what makes people change, human behavior and so on. So it needs some studies to understand what what things, what, what could be a middle point, understanding ingredients and the flavors a little bit like that in order to make it more familiar, I think long term. Possible. And from the social side I would say also how you give the information for the person. There's people who like things direct straight to the point and there is people who might need more emotional journey and things like that and and and so on. And that's and and my case for women I I do that support of you know like there is a lot of fear sometimes to to to understand their DNA what's what's the thing and how.
1 - 0:54:41
Yes.
2 - 0:54:42
The narrative needs to be changed because I think that the first associations about genetics, one of them is like OK, so the genes are there to make me like to develop a disease, you know, like and that's totally wrong. Genes are there for for maintaining your health in most of them work every time 24/7 to stay healthy. So it's a wrong misconceptions and also genetics is about you know familiar diseases and something is wrong. And crime and think not so I'm I'm working team that up because I for me genetic it's it's happiness it's just you know like understanding more lobbies or more take care of yourself in a in a more precise way prevention is something that also and that I love so we need to reframe and I don't think some people are really going to that like reframing that they want to compete and I'm more like collaborate in and things like that. So that's how I take you for the fantastic.
1 - 0:55:47
Well, I think we had a great conversations already an hour. So yeah tell us what what you are working on, anything exciting projects, anything learning, anything new, what what are you your plans for this year?
2 - 0:56:04
Well, first of all, I'm writing a book about the human identity based on like it's more of a, you know, I felt like everybody who thought about what it means to be human is very like maybe Eurocentric or male perspective or conquer perspective. But I was wearing Latin America, so I'm, I'm kind of writing what it means to be human from that DNA perspective, female perspective. So that's one of my projects. And you know, and maybe also. Embrace this in a bigger mindset with I'm working one-on-one, but I think to do it in in a group or maybe challenge other companies to to think another way, what about you?
1 - 0:56:49
Where, yeah, yeah. So yeah, we are, we are, yeah, we are. We continue to work on on becoming that that that hub for data and insights in in personalized nutrition. We keep on learning and of course adding to our database of you know. Not only companies, but also insights in industry. I think this year is going to be a defining year for for AI, you know, AI and machine learning. And so for me the ethical aspect of AI and that, you know, like this. This is societal impact is huge, huge, huge for me, I think it's very important. It's only going to become more important. And I think we need to have our fingers in the pie very early on before it causes, you know, havoc if we look back. So what what Keena, you know, really what I'd like Tina to be really you know, at the front and really leading and being the voice for the industry and so that that we make sure that everybody does does benefit and that's that's probably I think going to be one of the the key things for this year.
1 - 0:57:19
So, so yeah, I'm looking forward to it and I I look forward to learning a lot more and of course, yeah, connecting with a lot more. You know, women scientists, you know, entrepreneurs who are are are rocking and shaking, shaking the industry for sure. So yeah, it was great chatting. Where can where can the listeners find you?
2 - 0:58:14
And we you can find me in the link it in Brazil like and you can find me just genesandwellness.com and I have. Facebook and so on, so you can break free to reach me for any topics if you want the service or if you want to talk about women in science or any other topic looking forward. Thank you.
1 - 0:58:42
You can find me at Qina.tech and on LinkedIn as well. Thank you so much Magnolia. Great chat, see you.
Qina is the hub for data and insights in Personalised nutrition. Qina offers the world´s first comprehensive and curated database of Personalised nutrition companies in the industry. Qina has a library of expert content and offers consultancy services for innovation projects.
To stay up to date on news and developments in the Personalised nutrition industry, sign up for a free account